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Properties of (hypothetical) collectivist argument:

  • Convincing: an argument both correct, reasonable and understood by Ayn Rand(or whoever, anyone to which it is applied in this hypothetical).

If Ayn Rand is truly dedicated to REASON above all else including Objectivism: Could she be swayed by a convincing collectivist argument? Reason is one thing and Objectivism is another; Reason is the tool and Objectivism is the product(of thought) or an argument.

Pointers:

  • In this hypothetical, Objectivism is either(inclusive) mistaken(internal) somewhere OR not the best deal(external) - what it offers is not as great as that of the hypothetical convincing argument of a collectivist.
  • It's not whether Objectivism IS 'internally correct and the best deal(externally correct)', but whether in the HYPOTHETICAL scenario, on PRINCIPLE, WERE IT TO BE THE CASE; would Rand obey the greater argument--whatever that be?
  • For those who may question the use of hypotheticals and whether they are valid or practical: The game of chess proves the validity of hypothetical reasoning; as does the Monty Hall problem.

Possible scenarios: - (by possible: initially ambiguous until proven true or false OR superseded by better argument; at least in my mind and understanding and for matter of course thorough grain by grain reasoning)

  1. Objectivism is internally correct and is externally correct. (aka Perfect)
    / no collectivist argument is better either internally or externally.

  2. Objectivism is internally correct and is not externally correct. / a. no collectivist argument is better. / b. some collectivist arguments are externally better.

  3. Objectivism is not internally correct and is externally correct. / a. no collectivist argument is better. / b. some collectivist arguments are internally better.

  4. Objectivism is not internally correct and is not externally correct. / a. no collectivist argument is better. / b. some collectivist arguments are externally better. / c. some collectivist arguments are internally better. / d. some collectivist arguments are either(inclusive) externally better or internally better.

asked Sep 21 '12 at 17:55

Adeikov's gravatar image

Adeikov
70334

edited Sep 21 '12 at 18:36

Yes and no. Ayn Rand was in fact dedicated to reason, and if there was a reasonable collectivist argument that fits your description, yes, she would have considered it. However, there is no such thing as reasonable collectivism. Collectivism demands that the individual conform to its standards--whatever that may be--and it leaves him without personal choice. Collectivism requires the use of force, which is NOT reasonable. Objectivism rejects the initiation of force as a reasonable action.

(Sep 21 '12 at 20:33) Collin1 Collin1's gravatar image

Taken directly from the Ayn Rand Lexicon:

Collectivism means the subjugation of the individual to a group—whether to a race, class or state does not matter. Collectivism holds that man must be chained to collective action and collective thought for the sake of what is called “the common good.”

(Sep 21 '12 at 20:38) Collin1 Collin1's gravatar image

Thanks for the comment.

(Sep 22 '12 at 11:18) Adeikov Adeikov's gravatar image
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Asked: Sep 21 '12 at 17:55

Seen: 1,000 times

Last updated: Sep 22 '12 at 11:18