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I have been speaking to an Army recruiter and I told him the truth about what happened. He said he "gets people like me all the time," and would be happy to work with me. That was a relief! Anyway, he said now that I have a college degree, I can get a waiver for my "discharge" and work on getting into the Army. Yes, this is what I really want to do. I can get an intelligence MOS like I had before, but this time, I'm going to work on becoming a Warrant Officer. My recruiter said I can enlist as a Specialist, and become a WO after some experience. That's the route I'll take. Warrant Officers get saluted just like any other officer in the military. My recruiter says there have been a few guys who tried the Marines, failed, and end up joining the Army instead. Some branches just aren't meant for everyone. If anyone wants to talk to me personally, just comment below for my FB page.

asked Aug 11 '15 at 22:10

Collin1's gravatar image


edited Apr 01 at 22:22

You "faked" having an anxiety disorder because of your irrational fears about the recruitment process, huh?

I hope you don't take this too harshly, but people with well-functioning mental processes don't post messages on Objectivism question & answer sites asking strangers whether or not they should re-enlist in the marines. Maybe you don't have an anxiety disorder, but there's something going on in your noggin which is holding you back from achieving the most you can out of life. It's quite possible it's something that can be fixed, too.

(Aug 12 '15 at 10:32) anthony anthony's gravatar image

"honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others." aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/honesty.html

Stop lying. Stop lying to others, and stop lying to yourself. (The two are generally very closely related, anyway.)

(Aug 12 '15 at 10:38) anthony anthony's gravatar image

You have a great point there. There is something holding me back from reaching my fullest potential and I don't know what it is.

(Aug 13 '15 at 20:22) Collin1 Collin1's gravatar image
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My guess is that the second recruiter will find out about the first one and the perceived "freak out" (the military probably has databases nowadays) and you'll be dismissed again (unless, perhaps, you'd be willing to settle for a much lesser role that doesn't require the same level of mental stability as military intelligence). Anyway, this latest story makes no mention or acknowledgment of your prior history on this website, such as the December 2012 question about trying and failing. Some continuity from one story to the next would be appreciated.

Update: Maybe the Army

My understanding from the questioner's latest update (April 1) and previous comments (e.g., Feb. 28) is that he has been seriously considering joining the Army instead of the Marines, and has now decided to do so (but hasn't actually done it yet), but still seeks feedback from others that might be helpful and/or stimulating for him in his decision process. My main response is that it's his decision, it sounds reasonable (mostly), and he should act on it if it's what he really wants to do in his life.

(I'm also aware that the April 1 date of the questioner's latest update has special meaning for many as a day to trick others into foolishly believing something outrageously false, to see how gullible they might be. I certainly hope that an April Fool's ruse was not what the questioner had in mind.)

Here are some additional observations.

  • The Feb. 28 comments conclude with the following:
If I get a second chance, I'm not gonna blow it. And when I make it, I'll let you know.

That's certainly good to hear. It is very likely that any rational observer would find it interesting and potentially of further value to see someone conscientiously striving to be rational and productive while diligently working to overcome significant obstacles. This is true even if the story is mostly fiction rather than fact (perhaps even more so in the case of fiction, given the value of art in human life).

  • One dubious remark in the April 1 update stands out as particularly at odds with an Objectivist outlook on life:
Warrant Officers get saluted just like any other officer in the military.

In other words, the questioner wants people to "salute" him, like someone who seeks power and control over others. An Objectivist perspective, in my understanding, would place primary emphasis on learning the skills of s Specialist and acquiring substantial experience as a specialist before expecting to move into a leadership position for others as a Warrant Officer -- and the questioner certainly seems to acknowledge this process. I wonder, though, what the questioner will do if or when his superiors in the Army decide that he needs a longer time and greater experience as a specialist than he may be expecting.

For what it's worth, that's my "two cents." But the decision (i.e., action) rests with the questioner. It's his life to sort out.

answered Aug 12 '15 at 02:56

Ideas%20for%20Life's gravatar image

Ideas for Life ♦

edited Apr 06 at 07:11

It's NOT an April Fool's joke. The fact I posted the update on April 1 is just a coincidence. I am working on getting a waiver for my discharge. I had to wait six months to start the process to enlist in the Army, so I'm working on it now. If I have to work a little longer before becoming a Warrant Officer, so be it. I will do what I have to do to become the best I can be, and I won't quit. I won't do that again.

(Apr 06 at 13:39) Collin1 Collin1's gravatar image

This forum is not necesarily a good forum for this kind of personal advice question. Those of us who post answers here are not able to give out good advice on such personal issues because we do not know you well enough (not to mention the fact that we are not professionally trained in such matters).

However, I want you to know that I at least hope the best for you. The story you tell is one example of why lying is not in your self interest--it always ends up hurting you in the end. Whether you are able to reinlist or not, committing to honesty will be a great benefit to your life.

answered Aug 13 '15 at 16:45

ericmaughan43's gravatar image

ericmaughan43 ♦

That's the thing. I told my recruiter about those issues. I was just afraid the fact I'd get in trouble for it somewhere else down the line. He said not to worry, but I did. I went to the army recruiter a few weeks ago; he said he'll take me if I want to join the army instead. He understands. I have to wait six months before I start a new process in a different military branch, so in January/February, I can start with him--if I'm up for it. I can always go to a different USMC recruiter asking for another shot.

Thank you for your support, though.

(Aug 13 '15 at 20:21) Collin1 Collin1's gravatar image

I don't know if this is relevant to your particular context, but the French Foreign Legion tends to not view blemishes on its recruits' records as obstacles--as long as they don't try to hide them. http://en.legion-recrute.com

(Feb 26 at 21:28) El Manantial El%20Manantial's gravatar image

Not really. Anyway, I've been speaking to an army recruiter now. He's gonna help me get in the army instead. Do I want the Marines, yes. But I don't think I'll go back to that bootcamp. It was way too intense.

(Feb 26 at 23:51) Collin1 Collin1's gravatar image

I couldn't help but think of this Q&A while listening to the latest two episodes of Serial yesterday, Collin. (Episodes 7 and 8 of the Bowe Bergdahl story.) It seems that Bowe Bergdahl claims that he "faked" a mental illness during boot camp for the Coast Guard and then joined the Army where they waived him in without doing much of a mental health evaluation (he also looked into the French Foreign Legion but apparently was rejected).

Be honest with your recruiter, and with yourself. Failure to do so might lead to you causing a lot of pain both to yourself and others. People could die.

(Feb 27 at 06:59) anthony anthony's gravatar image

Another point for Collin to consider: why the preoccupation with military life? I still recall some of your earlier posts from some years ago where you showed a considerable talent for writing and storytelling, with someone suggesting the possibility of teaching as an occupation. Do you really prefer military life over being a school teacher?

(Feb 27 at 21:19) Ideas for Life ♦ Ideas%20for%20Life's gravatar image

Yes, I do. What got me started into the whole military was the realization that I wanted a change. A big change. Prior to enlisting, I was chunky, out of shape, and almost done with school. I had no idea what I wanted to do after college. Writing is a strong suit of mine, but I wanted something different. I wanted to get in shape, travel to different places, and do something which I can proudly put on my résumé. The Marines came to mind. Why? Because they're the best, hands down. I was up for the challenge.

(Feb 28 at 21:49) Collin1 Collin1's gravatar image

Say what you will about making it or not, one thing about me is that I'm never afraid to try. I was down there in Parris Island. I'm proud of that. And as badly as it ended, the one thing I took from that whole experience is that I've discovered what I can really do. I lost 15 lbs by the time I got home. I looked in the mirror and saw I was much thinner than before. Without a doubt, I know I will be fine in the army because it's not as intense as the USMC boot camp, and I've spoken to the army recruiter that I want an administrative job. I scored well on the ASVAB.

(Feb 28 at 21:52) Collin1 Collin1's gravatar image

The army has different boot camps, and for people who don't have an infantry job go to Fort Jackson. My recruiter calls it "Relaxin' Jackson" because it's the least intense boot camp. This time around I'll know I'll make it for two reasons. 1) I have my degree. 2) I know what quitting is like, and it sucks. I don't want to end up right back where I started. If I get a second chance, I'm not gonna blow it. And when I make it, I'll let you know.

(Feb 28 at 21:56) Collin1 Collin1's gravatar image
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Asked: Aug 11 '15 at 22:10

Seen: 731 times

Last updated: Apr 06 at 13:39