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Take a moment to conceive of an Objectivist government.

Would its legitimacy be derived from a social contract like the oft-mentioned "consent of the governed," or is government's legitimacy derived from the requirements of life?

Since Objectivists are not Anarchists, they believe government should exist to defend against the infringement of a man's right to his own life, and deliver just and objective punishments therefore. But that authority stems from the conditions of life -- that not all men are rational, are capable of violating the rights of others, and are generally not capable of issuing unbiased punishments in the aftermath of a dispute.

Thus, is consent a legitimate source of government authority?

asked Jul 28 '11 at 10:50

JK%20Gregg's gravatar image

JK Gregg ♦
39814

edited Jul 28 '11 at 10:50

1

Consent in the sense of the proposed government will almost always reduce back to contractual agreement of some sort. The benefits received from consensual agreement to a government on Objectivist principles is a prime motivation to do so. That there are those irrational and therefore less inclined to see the benefit is a side issue. Being unprotected by law, through ones consent not to be governed by it, has its own hazards - causality can be a harsh mistress. There is no need to 'enforce' a government on those unwilling to recognise it as beneficial to their existence.

(Jul 28 '11 at 22:41) Cog Cog's gravatar image

I suppose I see government as a moral necessity -- considering the fact that men are not angels and subject to irrationality. Thus, even in a society of anarchists, the absolvement of government would still be an immoral act. This leads me to believe that government's legitimacy is not derived from consent, but rather from reality and the nature of man?

Am I wrong?

(Jul 29 '11 at 10:57) JK Gregg ♦ JK%20Gregg's gravatar image

Government needs the consent of the people whose rights it is defending, not the consent of the people it is defending them against.

(Jul 29 '11 at 11:08) anthony anthony's gravatar image

Legitemacy in the sense of purpose and need, yes, it relates to the requirements of living qua man. As an aside, to be fair to AnCaps, most AnCap models have legal and justice systems - Objectivists differ in the advocation of the monopoly of Government, in this case the monopoly of force.

(Jul 29 '11 at 18:14) Cog Cog's gravatar image

what gives the government its legitimacy is how consistently it upholds individual rights. The social contract theory is a legitimate but inexact and failed attempt to name the tacit agreement that underlies a society, but which is better known as the trader principle

(Jul 30 '11 at 01:29) Fareed Fareed's gravatar image
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The question itself, along with the comments on it, cover the main points very well. Consent, and protection of rights, are not mutually exclusive. "Consent of the governed" is an important aspect of recognizing and protecting man's rights. Here is how America's founders stated it in the Declaration of Independence:

...to secure these rights [Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness], Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed... whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Satefy and Happpiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes....

Note the following points:

  • The Founders' view of "consent of the governed" did not amount to pure democracy, in which all government powers and actions are determined by direct popular vote. Rather, the founders created a constitutionally delimited, representative democracy. Consent was involved in forming the government originally and in choosing the personnel to run it, but the government's powers were defined and delimited by the U.S. Constitution. Consent was also involved in proposals to amend the Constitution from time to time, but the degree of consent required is very high (three-fourths of the state legislatures [Article V]), along with a similarly high standard of consent just to have a proposed amendment submitted for ratification at all. And again, the consent required is representative (by elected representatives in the state governments) rather than by direct popular vote.

  • The Founders' view was that the consent of the original founding generation would be binding on future generations, insofar as the government's power to protect everyone's individual rights imposes any obligations on citizens. Fundamental changes in the government could not be made except by Constitutional Amendment.

  • There was no concept in America's founding that groups of individuals could "opt out" of the government's jurisdiction while still residing within the government's territorial boundaries. Citizens could "opt out" only by getting out, which they have always been free (under the U.S, system) to do. The closest serious historical approach to "opting out" came with the idea that an entire state could secede from the union. That idea was properly settled historically with the Civil War, and by the deeper issues of why man needs a government and the manner and conditions in which a government can properly be changed.

  • The Founders were primarily concerned with violations of man's rights by the government itself, and sought primarily to create a government that would remain constrained to uphold and protect individual rights without itself becoming a rights violator.

    There are certain respects in which Objectivism may disagree with America's founders, such as whether or not man's nature is determined by a "Creator," whether or not the universe needed a "Creator" to get it started, and whether or not a "Creator" exists at all or ever existed. But he Founders' idea of the "consent of the governed," properly understood in its original context, is not significantly problematic in the Objectivist view of rights and government (in my understanding).

    Update

    A comment by anthony questions what obligations a proper government imposes on its citizens. The main obligation is to refrain from taking the retaliatory use of physical force into their own hands. It is the responsibility of the government to be man's agent of retaliatory physical force. (Retaliatory physical force, of course, is man's basic recourse against the initiation of physical force against him, if and when it occurs.)

  • answered Jul 30 '11 at 00:34

    Ideas%20for%20Life's gravatar image

    Ideas for Life ♦
    364713

    edited Jul 31 '11 at 02:23

    The idea that one generation can impose binding unchosen obligations on a future generation is quite problematic in the Objectivist view of rights and government.

    However, I think it is your description of the situation which is incorrect. The only obligations one has under a proper government is to abstain from violating the rights of others, and this is not an obligation which is imposed by government, it is one that exists due to the nature of man.

    (Jul 30 '11 at 10:26) anthony anthony's gravatar image

    Government derives its legitimacy from man's nature, not from "consent of the governed." A government can be legitimate regardless of how many people endorse it.

    "Consent of the governed" does not imply a contract, social or otherwise. A criminal cannot escape judgment by saying that they do not consent to be governed.

    I view "consent of the governed" to be shorthand for saying that people are morally empowered to create a government to protect their objective rights, and when they do, they recognize that they must also voluntarily delegate their right of self-defense (except in emergency situations) to that government; there is no right of vigilantism.

    answered Jul 31 '11 at 22:35

    Rick's gravatar image

    Rick ♦
    4897

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