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How do we know there is a difference from perceiving to forming it? That we have no power over the physical world.

asked Mar 07 '11 at 14:31

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Sage1
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edited Mar 07 '11 at 19:13

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Andrew Dalton ♦
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We do have power over the physical world with respect to shaping and rearranging it. However I suspect that you mean creating or destroying it in part or in whole. To prove that reality exists independently of consciousness, you simply need to observe the results after you wish for the non-existence or existence of an entity. Unlike our dreams which operate outside the realm of logic, reality does not and cannot contradict its own laws. We must obey reality in order to shape it.

(Mar 07 '11 at 14:43) dreadrocksean dreadrocksean's gravatar image
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Your evidence for this is that you can open your eyes and see the things around you. This is direct evidence for you from your personal experience. Any other conclusion must demonstrate positively that your direct experiential evidence is invalid or incomplete. Without such a positive demonstration, any assertion that "reality is independent from consciousness" is empty words and it is to be disregarded as content-less and as having no connection to reality.

(Mar 08 '11 at 10:01) Justice Justice's gravatar image

Perceiving reality is the action of consciousness via the senses. We perceive reality independent of ourselves by our senses. To form it, we must physically interact with it. We can form a snowball with snow by using our hands. We can observe the snow, and think about snowballs, but they will not materialize without physically picking up the snow and shaping it into a snowball. Our power over the physical world is directed by our consciousness via actions that directly physically interact with reality. In this sense we can induce the Objectivist principle that existence has primacy over consciousness - or the 'primacy of existence principle' as it is formally referred to.

Leonard Peikoff uses the following examples to illustrate this in OPAR:

From the outset, consciousness presents itself as something specific—as a faculty of perceiving an object, not of creating or changing it. For instance, a child may hate the food set in front of him and refuse even to look at it. But his inner state does not erase his dinner. Leaving aside physical action, the food is impervious; it is unaffected by a process of consciousness as such. It is unaffected by anyone's perception or nonperception, memory or fantasy, desire or fury—just as a book refuses to roll despite anyone's tantrums, or a pillow to rattle, or a block to float.

Existence is unaffected by consciousness when only consciousness is used in and of itself. It is when consciousness volitionally directs the actions of the physical being in which it is present that reality can be affected.

answered Mar 07 '11 at 18:30

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dream_weaver ♦
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To me, the most important sentence Ayn Rand wrote on this matter is:

"Existence exists—and the act of grasping that statement implies two corollary axioms: that something exists which one perceives and that one exists possessing consciousness, consciousness being the faculty of perceiving that which exists." ~ Galt’s Speech, For the New Intellectual, p. 124

The fact that reality has to be grasped by the human mind, implies that it has no power over it. If one maintains that consciousness exists prior to existence, one ends up in contradiction: before anything exists, consciousness would.

(Nov 08 '11 at 04:16) Brecht Arnaert Brecht%20Arnaert's gravatar image

We know that reality is independent of consciousness because wishing something doesn't make it so.

That so many people deny this obvious and basic fact about life is hard to fathom, but it isn't an iota of evidence that reality is dependent on consciousness.

Our minds do not create reality; our minds observe it. And anyone who disagrees is either profoundly dishonest, or profoundly confused by someone who has been dishonest.

answered Jul 11 '12 at 12:20

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John Paquette ♦
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Asked: Mar 07 '11 at 14:31

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Last updated: Jul 11 '12 at 12:20